tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post4868027542641333090..comments2023-03-12T06:36:14.129-07:00Comments on Dr David Clarke: Ewe couldn't make it up!Dave Clarkehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-4612128319226723862010-06-10T11:47:36.543-07:002010-06-10T11:47:36.543-07:00OK Dave I look forward to seeing the results of yo...OK Dave I look forward to seeing the results of your investigations.<br /><br />If you turn up any real evidence that's worth taking further then I will be interested to see it. <br /><br />But I'd point out that animals die in odd circumstances all the time, but we don't need to resort to "spheres of light" or paranormal forces to explain them. Human criminals and animal predators should be considered far more likely.<br /><br />Of course farmers occasionally report such things to the police, as in the Devon case. I'd be daft to claim otherwise (and never have). <br /><br />But the Sun story - quoting APRU - alleges that mysterious forces are killing sheep in Shropshire, not in Devon. I repeat again if such incidents had really happened the police and animal health teams in that part of the world would be aware of it.<br /><br />As far as I can discover, they are not.<br /><br />PS can I suggest that if you wish to continue this correspondence that you email me directly rather than posting here - until you have something worth saying that isn't repetition.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-67788756478290038142010-06-10T10:14:04.780-07:002010-06-10T10:14:04.780-07:00"The case you reported is from Devon and Corn..."The case you reported is from Devon and Cornwall, not from Shropshire - therefore irrelevant."<br /><br />Irrelevant to what exactly? You said that you find it hard to believe that "any farmer in this country" would not report such incidents to the Police. Yet when I supply evidence to the contrary, you claim it's irrelvant! It's certainly relevant to establishing that 'mutilation' cases have been reported to the police, regardless of whether it took place in the Welsh Borders or not. <br /><br />"You have now changed the goalposts to cover animal mutilations in other parts of the UK."<br /><br />Oh right, silly me thought that documented 'mutilation' cases involving the Police in the UK counted as evidence against your claim that "any farmer in this country" would not report such incidents to the Police. I suggest it is you who is moving the goal posts.<br /><br />In any case, I shall contact the APFU directly and ask them whether farmers have reported these incidents to the Police and other authorities in the Welsh Borders area. I'll post my findings here.<br /><br />"I'm asking for evidence of police investigations of mutilations of sheep by laser beams directed by spaceships in Shropshire and the Welsh Borders.<br /><br />This is what APRU are claiming."<br /><br />Is it? I thought that was what the Sun was claiming what Phil Hoyle said, and we know how reliable the Sun is. Where do the APFU say that these 'mutilations' were carried out by laser beams from space ships? They certainly refer to farmers reporting spheres of light and have even posted a video of some spheres they shot themselves on a surveillance operation. The closest I have found to a statement on this by them is:<br /><br />"The APFU have believe that there is a link between the enigmatic spheres and animal mutilations."Dave Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182481968584866354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-13367493179899226972010-06-10T09:21:20.638-07:002010-06-10T09:21:20.638-07:00Thanks for making my point for me Dave.
The case ...Thanks for making my point for me Dave.<br /><br />The case you reported is from Devon and Cornwall, not from Shropshire - therefore irrelevant.<br /><br />You have now changed the goalposts to cover animal mutilations in other parts of the UK.<br /><br />I'm asking for evidence of police investigations of mutilations of sheep by laser beams directed by spaceships in Shropshire and the Welsh Borders.<br /><br />This is what APRU are claiming.<br /><br />If such incidents had occurred in Shropshire as APRU are alleging they would have been reported to and investigated by either:<br /><br />West Mercia Police<br /><br />or <br /><br />Department of the Environment Animal Health<br /><br />When you can supply evidence that such investigations have taken place I might take this subject more seriously.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-15586981724885015462010-06-10T09:05:28.937-07:002010-06-10T09:05:28.937-07:00"I find it difficult to believe that any farm..."I find it difficult to believe that any farmer in this country could lose valuable livestock in the circumstances alleged by the APRU and not report such losses (criminal offences) to either the police or local Animal Health Teams."<br /><br />The APFU website presents a case involving the Police in Devon:<br /> <br />"On the 5th October 2009 Mike Freebury finally won a long and protracted battle with the Information Commissioner and the Devon and Cornwall Constabulary to obtain the release of photographs taken by Scene of Crimes Officer(SOCO) for the Devon and Cornwall police at Moortown, Dartmoor on 16th October 2005.<br /><br />The police images were taken as part of an investigation into two mutilation attacks that took place at Moortown, Dartmoor on Friday 14th October and Saturday 15th October 2005. There were four victims left in a locked field on Friday, 14th and two more victims were found on<br />Saturday, 15th October at nearby Barn Hill."<br /><br />A full description of the case and photos of the 'mutilations' can be viewed at the APFU website.<br /><br />Also see these interviews with the APFU team members about alleged involvement of DEFRA in these cases and their investigations:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wWYcgUyHaA&feature=player_embedded<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9srVqOs9vig&feature=player_embedded#!<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuVG9gKnR50&feature=player_embedded#!Dave Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182481968584866354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-65046743889130473112010-06-10T07:16:43.262-07:002010-06-10T07:16:43.262-07:00So you don't feel the need to investigate furt...So you don't feel the need to investigate further, because you have satisfied yourself that these cases exist - on the basis of reading the APRU website and without making any further inquiries of your own.<br /><br />And in the same post you criticise me for using "secondary sources".<br /><br />That sounds like the pot calling the kettle.<br /><br />At the risk of repeating myself - and this is my final word: I find it difficult to believe that any farmer in this country could lose valuable livestock in the circumstances alleged by the APRU and not report such losses (criminal offences) to either the police or local Animal Health Teams. They would need to do this in order to claim compensation for starters.<br /><br />No farmer would bypass that route and report their losses to a UFO group only.<br /><br />This is where my bullshit detector smells a very big rat.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-42740455317210782412010-06-10T06:28:12.625-07:002010-06-10T06:28:12.625-07:00"They are Primary Sources of reliable informa..."They are Primary Sources of reliable information."<br /><br />That's not really what I meant. We want to know if these farmers really exist and have lost livestock in the manner in which the APFU claims (not in the manner in which the Sun claims). Asking the APFU for their names would be the best way to verify this and then follow up on that wouldn't you agree? Asking the Police or Animal Health Team would only verify the farmers existence if the farmers had reported the deaths to these authorities. <br /><br />Are you basing above point (2) on any facts about established or necessary procedures?<br /><br />"If you wish to investigate further, why waste time posting messages on my blog"<br /><br />I don't feel the need to investigate further, I have satisfied myself that these cases exist. I'm posting here mainly because I thought your opening post was quite harsh and not up to your usual standards if you don't mind me saying. I'm also interested in why you continue to refuse to check the facts given this was a case worthy of your interest in taking 30 mins to contact the Animal Health Team...Dave Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182481968584866354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-72156712599075303432010-06-10T05:57:50.071-07:002010-06-10T05:57:50.071-07:00Dave,
I'll try to make this simple:
(1) Polic...Dave, <br />I'll try to make this simple:<br />(1) Police and Animal Health inspectors are not "secondary sources".<br />They are Primary Sources of reliable information.<br />(2) If Farmers had lost livestock in the way APRU claims, those farmers would have reported these losses to (1) above.<br />As there is no evidence they have done so, my view is there is no "mystery" to investigate.<br />But that's just my opinion. If you wish to investigate further, why waste time posting messages on my blog - you could be in a car on your way to Shropshire by now.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-78229286627131185492010-06-10T05:41:38.457-07:002010-06-10T05:41:38.457-07:00No evidence of what? That these farmers exist? Tha...No evidence of what? That these farmers exist? That would seem to be false since names and addresses have been published on the APFU website.<br /><br />"At an even more basic level, who are these farmers..."<br /><br />"It is not up to me to investigate every extraordinary claim..."<br /><br />This is bizarre. You were the one who asked who these farmers are, implying they don't exist. You spend half an hour checking with the Animal Health Team but you won't spend the 5 minutes it would take to check the APFU website. You are told that their names are a mouse click away yet you claim you are too busy to check the facts. Not too busy to check with secondary sources of course. This isn't scepticism David!<br /> <br />If anyone reading is interested in the facts then simply google the APFU website.Dave Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182481968584866354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-41287560848977807012010-06-10T05:23:37.933-07:002010-06-10T05:23:37.933-07:00I should add that I might take APRU claims a bit m...I should add that I might take APRU claims a bit more seriously if:<br />a) farmers had reported these animal losses to the police (no evidence)<br />b) farmers had reported losses to the Animal Health teams (no reports received).<br />I find it difficult to believe that any farmer in this country who lost valuable livestock in mysterious circumstances, would not report those losses officially and, instead, take their concerns to a UFO group.<br />When these mysterious mutilations are subject to a police and/or DofE inquiry, then it would be worth a follow-up.<br />Until that happens - it's not worth tuppence.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-54438496578555816032010-06-10T05:10:59.063-07:002010-06-10T05:10:59.063-07:00Dave - everyone has limited resources and I have t...Dave - everyone has limited resources and I have to prioritise what I can do.<br />If I followed up every stupid story in The Sun to the extent that you suggest, I would have to give up paid employment.<br />As you say, in the past I have put a lot of time and resources into investigations but now I have to prioritise.<br />I now have an in-built bullshit detector that makes such a waste of resources unnecessary.<br />The bottom line is:<br />Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.<br />It is not up to me to investigate every extraordinary claim - I've done the hard work to justify my scepticism.<br />No, it is up to the people making the claims to provide the evidence.<br />Once we have some evidence it might be worth investigation. At the moment there is none.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-28144778992183754842010-06-10T04:19:43.802-07:002010-06-10T04:19:43.802-07:00Well, of course the story as reported in the Sun i...Well, of course the story as reported in the Sun is full of bunk. We all know the Sun is full of shit. But the real story behind the story, if you will, may not be bunk. <br /><br />Why the reluctance to contact the APFU directly? You seem to go to great lengths to investigate most UFO related cases (which is commendable). A simple phone call or email to the APFU doesn't seem beyond the call of duty. Contacting the APFU directly would also give you the opportunity to ask why these farmers have not contacted the police or Animal Health Team rather than assuming that said farmers don't exist. <br /><br />These are the facts:<br /><br />The APFU website has published the names of several farmers who have lost animals in so-called mysterious circumstances. The location of the farms are also given.<br /><br />So it appears there is something for you to investigate after all.<br /><br />I'm not inclined to assume these animal deaths are 'unexplainable' but these cases do exist and farmers have been named by the APFU.Dave Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182481968584866354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-14729042725329692402010-06-09T08:37:07.997-07:002010-06-09T08:37:07.997-07:00Dave:
This whole story needs debunking because it ...Dave:<br />This whole story needs debunking because it is full of bunk.<br />It is not up to me to go looking for farmers who have lost sheep to aliens.<br />It's up to 'the Animal Pathology Field Unit' to publish their evidence.<br />The facts are:<br />a) no farmers have reported losses to the local police or Animal Health Team<br />b) until a named farmer does so - or steps forward to substantiate these claims, on the record - there's nothing to investigate.Dave Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811372009688882929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4814034554561548728.post-69119161231406256322010-06-09T05:22:36.994-07:002010-06-09T05:22:36.994-07:00Dr. Clarke, why don't you contact the Animal P...Dr. Clarke, why don't you contact the Animal Pathology Field Unit yourself and ask for the names of the farmers who have lost their livestock? <br /><br />Then again, that would be letting facts get in the way of a good debuking excercise...Dave Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182481968584866354noreply@blogger.com